Tornamesas

[Alberto 244]

La Tornamesa con que apuesta Naim.

Construída por Clearaudio, bajo especificaciones de Naim.

Aún no hay detalles del funcionamiento del sistema de transporte pero si de la flotación magnética y del chasis.

http://tas.zeitpress.com/media/articles/images/Naim-Audio---Solstice01085-Tone-Arm-On-small%5B55%5D.jpg

 

[Asterion 203]

hace 5 horas, Alberto dijo:

La Tornamesa con que apuesta Naim.

Construída por Clearaudio, bajo especificaciones de Naim.

Aún no hay detalles del funcionamiento del sistema de transporte pero si de la flotación magnética y del chasis.

http://tas.zeitpress.com/media/articles/images/Naim-Audio---Solstice01085-Tone-Arm-On-small[55].jpg

 

https://www.naimaudio.com/solstice

Venía a compartir la misma noticia.

Alguna vez JL me comentó que en NAIM eran muy cuidadosos/conservadores/precavidos/miedosos en los pasos que daban y que se demoraron mucho incluso en decidirse a estrenar su primer CD player. 

 

[macs 6]

THORENS TD 320

[Alberto 244]

Technics Grand Class SL-1300G
La nueva apuesta de Technics, incorporando todos sus avances en control de vibración, reducción de "cogging" y que la sitúa encima de la serie GR2, seguramente a la par de la G en precio, pero eliminando todo ese molesto adn de dj (luces/strobo/ajuste de pitch), consiguiendo el "sueño" de algunos audiófilos que no tienen bolsillos tan largos como para una SP10R o el paquete completo SL1000R.

Más información: https://www.technics.com/uk/products/grand-class/turntables/sl-1300g.html

[jmrojas 16]

On 05-09-2024 at 11:10, Alberto dijo:

Technics Grand Class SL-1300G
La nueva apuesta de Technics, incorporando todos sus avances en control de vibración, reducción de "cogging" y que la sitúa encima de la serie GR2, seguramente a la par de la G en precio, pero eliminando todo ese molesto adn de dj (luces/strobo/ajuste de pitch), consiguiendo el "sueño" de algunos audiófilos que no tienen bolsillos tan largos como para una SP10R o el paquete completo SL1000R.

Más información: https://www.technics.com/uk/products/grand-class/turntables/sl-1300g.html

Ya en venta. en Eu$ 3000; especulando precios en Chile x 1,5 veces  

[Gerardo Gonzalez 117]

Será la misma calidad que las antiguas technics???   yo años y años con mi SL-1600mk1 y aun funcionando como nueva y nada roto

[Alberto 244]

On 23-09-2024 at 11:43, Gerardo Gonzalez dijo:

Será la misma calidad que las antiguas technics???   yo años y años con mi SL-1600mk1 y aun funcionando como nueva y nada roto

Claramente son mejores porque resuelven los problemas de los motores DD de gama media y baja (por ejemplo cogging medible), que hizo que nunca llegaran a considerarse realmente "audiófilas", por más que a muchos les moleste: la mejor prueba de esto es que desde que hicieron la SP10R en adelante, parte de su marketing apunta precisamente a la eliminación de problema. Lo que hacen con el modelo Top actual, SP10R, que es una continuación de la SP10MKIII, que salió poco antes que la era digital dominara el campo de la reproducción, dejando truncado el desarrollo de la tecnología, es precisamente dar otro cuarto de vuelta de tuerca a la tecnología, sin mejorar las mediciones de señal/ruido, pero si, eventualmente, dando una continuidad sin "pasos" en la velocidad. Recordemos que el desarrollo de la línea profesional/top SP10, es un derivado del motor SP02 diseñado para los tornos de corte Neumann, en sustitución de los longevos y famosos motores Lyrec (que por cierto tienen tornamesas profesionales con el mismo motor, muy raras y apetecidas), no obstante sin traspasar toda la tecnología. Es la SP10MKII, que empieza a brillar esta tecnología y llega a su máxima expresión con la SP10MKIII.
Una cosa latera de Technics es que desarrolló los modelos debajo de la SP10R, a imagen y semejanza de las SL-1200, solo por marketing, porque el público masivo solo recordaba estos modelos de gama media/baja porque fueron longevos gracias los clubes de baile. Y la contradicción absurda, cuando se les da la pasada al departamento de marketing y no al de ingeniería para que dirija, es que los nuevos modelos, no son usados por DJ's porque son mucho más caros y ya tienen su 1200mk7, por lo que el ajuste de pitch y strobos, etc sobran. Esto es algo que viene en parte a restaurar este modelo, que queda un paso más abajo de la G y bastante más arriba que las GR.

Editado September 25, 2024 at 12:55 por Alberto

[Alberto 244]

On 23-09-2024 at 9:16, jmrojas dijo:

Ya en venta. en Eu$ 3000; especulando precios en Chile x 1,5 veces  

Si, salieron algunos datos después que hice la nota. Además, despejaron las dudas: Se sitúa sobre las GR y debajo de la G. Compartiendo tecnologías de ambas.

 

[Gerardo Gonzalez 117]

On 25-09-2024 at 9:52, Alberto dijo:

Si, salieron algunos datos después que hice la nota. Además, despejaron las dudas: Se sitúa sobre las GR y debajo de la G. Compartiendo tecnologías de ambas.

 

Muy interesante e instructiva tu nota, harto que aprender en este campo, ciertamente las elevadas masas de los platos hacen su pega al igual que el volante de inercia en los autos, aunque nada es perfecto en esta vida, ciertamente que con los avances tecnológicos, la no linealidad de roración , mejor dicho la velocidad angular ha ido mejorando, (en el amplio sentido de pureza) ahora la pregunta de oro es, que efecto genera el cogging?, es tal vez ese movimiento desordenado en el woofer cuando la aguja pasa por surcos vacios? ó alguna manera de detectarlo sin tener que usar un estroboscopio de precisión?

[funkyto 539]

On 23-09-2024 at 10:43, Gerardo Gonzalez dijo:

Será la misma calidad que las antiguas technics???   yo años y años con mi SL-1600mk1 y aun funcionando como nueva y nada roto

 

[Alberto 244]

On 25-09-2024 at 22:25, Gerardo Gonzalez dijo:

Muy interesante e instructiva tu nota, harto que aprender en este campo, ciertamente las elevadas masas de los platos hacen su pega al igual que el volante de inercia en los autos, aunque nada es perfecto en esta vida, ciertamente que con los avances tecnológicos, la no linealidad de roración , mejor dicho la velocidad angular ha ido mejorando, (en el amplio sentido de pureza) ahora la pregunta de oro es, que efecto genera el cogging?, es tal vez ese movimiento desordenado en el woofer cuando la aguja pasa por surcos vacios? ó alguna manera de detectarlo sin tener que usar un estroboscopio de precisión?

No tiene que ver con el roce de la aguja con el surco, sino con la forma en que opera el motor de las DD (y eventualmente de las de correa, pero la forma de transferir la fuerza al plato es completamente distinta).
Una definición típica:
"El 'cogging' o par de torsión de los motores eléctricos es el par debido a la interacción entre los imanes permanentes del rotor y las ranuras del estator de una máquina de imanes permanentes. También se lo conoce como par de retención o par sin corriente. Este par depende de la posición y su periodicidad por revolución depende del número de polos magnéticos y del número de dientes del estator. El par de torsión es un componente indeseable para el funcionamiento de un motor de este tipo. Es especialmente prominente a velocidades bajas, con el síntoma de sacudidas. El par de torsión produce par así como ondulación de velocidad."
Las DD tuvieron el problema de que mientras no desarrollaran una tecnología adecuada a menor costo, las de correa podían tener la primacía, aunque claro, los DD heads sigan en estado de negación. Se debió esperar muchos años para que se produjera esta vuelta de tuerca.
 

[Gerardo Gonzalez 117]

On 26-09-2024 at 12:55, funkyto dijo:

 

Esa misma es la que tengo, mismo color, Vinylengine tiene el manual de mantenimiento

[Gerardo Gonzalez 117]

On 26-09-2024 at 15:09, Alberto dijo:

No tiene que ver con el roce de la aguja con el surco, sino con la forma en que opera el motor de las DD (y eventualmente de las de correa, pero la forma de transferir la fuerza al plato es completamente distinta).
Una definición típica:
"El 'cogging' o par de torsión de los motores eléctricos es el par debido a la interacción entre los imanes permanentes del rotor y las ranuras del estator de una máquina de imanes permanentes. También se lo conoce como par de retención o par sin corriente. Este par depende de la posición y su periodicidad por revolución depende del número de polos magnéticos y del número de dientes del estator. El par de torsión es un componente indeseable para el funcionamiento de un motor de este tipo. Es especialmente prominente a velocidades bajas, con el síntoma de sacudidas. El par de torsión produce par así como ondulación de velocidad."
Las DD tuvieron el problema de que mientras no desarrollaran una tecnología adecuada a menor costo, las de correa podían tener la primacía, aunque claro, los DD heads sigan en estado de negación. Se debió esperar muchos años para que se produjera esta vuelta de tuerca.
 

Comprendo plenamente, lo observé en un tornamesa sony ps242 DD muy básica, en el cual el estroboscopio de referencia con el plato jugaba la marca de 33 rpm en mas menos 1 mm, es decir no se quedaba quieta el estroboscopio aunque centrado en su rpm base, en un modelo anterior bajo el mismo concepto habia un procedimiento de ajuste de 4 potenciómetros y un osciloscopio hasta obtener detener completamente la oscilación, claramente el estroboscopio visualmente lograba el ajuste, pero dado el concepto de dar impulso al imán permanente del plato mediante 4 electroimanes siempre existirá algo de cogging

[funkyto 539]

212 a 242, Sony nunca destaco mucho en tornamesas

[Mr_oD 3.303]

On 28-09-2024 at 22:39, funkyto dijo:

212 a 242, Sony nunca destaco mucho en tornamesas

Se supone que uno de los mejores modelos fue la Sony PS-X9, dudo que haya llegado a territorio nacional.

Modelo: Sony PS-X 9

Año: 1977-1984

Conducción: directa

Motor: Servo CC BSL lineal

Velocidad: 33 1/3 y 45 rpm, control de cuarzo

Aceleración: < 300 ms (1/8 r / 33,3 rpm)

Fluctuación y fluctuación: ±<0,03 % (DIN), ±0,02 % (ponderado)

Ajuste fino de velocidad: ± 6 %

Relación señal/ruido: 75 dB (DIN-B), 80 dB (IHF-A)

Plato: 380 mm, 5,8 kg, aluminio

Brazo: PUA-9, 12″, forma de J, equilibrado estáticamente

Dimensiones: 54 x 22 x 45 cm

Peso: 35 kg

[funkyto 539]

On 29-09-2024 at 9:24, Mr_oD dijo:

Se supone que uno de los mejores modelos fue la Sony PS-X9, dudo que haya llegado a territorio nacional.

Modelo: Sony PS-X 9

Año: 1977-1984

Conducción: directa

Motor: Servo CC BSL lineal

Velocidad: 33 1/3 y 45 rpm, control de cuarzo

Aceleración: < 300 ms (1/8 r / 33,3 rpm)

Fluctuación y fluctuación: ±<0,03 % (DIN), ±0,02 % (ponderado)

Ajuste fino de velocidad: ± 6 %

Relación señal/ruido: 75 dB (DIN-B), 80 dB (IHF-A)

Plato: 380 mm, 5,8 kg, aluminio

Brazo: PUA-9, 12″, forma de J, equilibrado estáticamente

Dimensiones: 54 x 22 x 45 cm

Peso: 35 kg

En si, sigo afirmando mi postura, Sony a excepción de su linea ES y el modelo que mencionas, era mas meramente comercial, sus tornamesas eran muy lindas pero de muy mala aislacion y ajustes.

[funkyto 539]

https://www.whathifi.com/features/best-15-turntables-what-hi-fis-lifetime

1200 vivita y coleando para dolor y envidia de muchos, aun sigue dando la pelea.

The 17 best turntables of What Hi-Fi?'s lifetime

By Ketan Bharadia, Harry McKerrell

 last updated April 15, 2024

We're nearly 50, you know. And yes, we know we don't look it. But that doesn't mean we can't reminisce...

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(Image credit: Vertere)

 

While many of the best turntables you can currently buy have certainly left a positive impression on our hearts and ears, there are a few decks from decades past that have managed to attain a truly lasting legacy. As we're currently celebrating Vinyl Week in the build-up to Record Store Day this weekend, we're looking back at the iconic, once-revered and even new models that have helped define and shape the history of the turntable, with every entry on this list adding to the story of vinyl playback in its own unique way.

Some record players make an impact through their forward-thinking designs, while others earn a place in the annals of history because they bring vinyl replay to the mainstream at an attractive, democratised price. Crucially, all of the players below share one thing in common: they sound fantastic, giving your beloved records the exceptional sonic treatment they deserve

 

Delving back into the foggy recesses of the 1970s and moving through to the groundbreaking mastery of present-day pioneers, these are the turntables that have made a profound, lasting impact across What Hi-Fi?'s proud 48-year history. 

• The best turntables of the 21st century
• 13 debut decks from iconic turntable brands

Linn LP12 (1973)

 

The LP12 was a big hit in the '70s, in part due to how easy it was to amend and upgrade. 

Linn's LP12 turntable was first introduced in 1972 and immediately proved popular with audiophiles. The range of compatible arms and cartridges the company made meant keeping this vinyl player up-to-date was satisfyingly easy.

Almost every aspect of the design has been revised over the years, and while the early breed of the LP12 had a round and rich balance, modern incarnations have moved towards a more neutral, even-handed sound.

Technics SL1200 (1976)

 

The SL1200 was favoured among DJs during the '70s. (Image credit: Technics)

Perennially the DJ's favourite, the SL1200 is known for being built to a supremely high standard. There was plenty of flexibility when it came to positioning and cartridge-matching too, so you had a fair bit of choice in making this turntable feel (and sound) like your own.

Tough, fuss-free, with solid sound quality, this player is worthy of its legendary status as it turns 50 this year (and has a limited edition model to show for it).

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Rega Planar 3 (1978)

 

One of Rega's earlier turntables proved even then just how good the British brand was at making record players.

Since its introduction in 1978, the Rega Planar 3 has been a go-to turntable (and its modern incarnation, the RP3/Elys 2, is still going strong). The Planar series is well-known within hi-fi circles, combining a simple yet elegant design with some ever-dependable build quality and that signature Rega sound. You can't do much better for the price.

A respectable mid-market record player, the Planar 3 remains an easy-going, low-cost piece of kit that continues to keep our vinyl spinning – and since the company keeps refining the product, we imagine it'll stay that way for a while yet.

Dual CS505 (1981)

 

One of the finest budget turntables of the 1980s. 

Who says that you can't get good quality on a budget? Not us, that's for sure. And it was as true in the 1980s as it is now, thanks to Dual's CS505 player. It was a tidy, well-balanced performer that managed to bring a decent amount of detail to the table without exposing the entry-level kit it usually worked with.

While it might have looked a little inelegant in the beginning, later versions looked more refined thanks to smarter wooden plinths. But no matter how it looked, this Dual delivered satisfying results. And going by the latest Dual CS 418 and Dual CS 518 reviews, its decks still are today.

Michell Gyrodec (1982)

 

The Gyrodec combined artsy aesthetics with great sound.

In 1982 the Gyrodec was a combination of great sound quality and artistic design. Bring the clock up to date and this player is still available – and it's a testament to its quality that it's essentially the same machine. There aren't many decks from the early 1980s that still have a place in today's modern market, after all.

When it's up and running it sounds detailed, expressive and graceful, ready to put down other products costing plenty more. It's not plug-and-play – some assembly is required – but the instructions are clear, and there's a logic to its design that means it'll be spinning your discs in no time.

Read our Michell Gyrodec SE/TecnoArm A review

Systemdek IIX (1990)

 

Behold, our Product of the Year for 1990.

The Systemdek IIX became our Product of the Year in 1990, and it held that position for the next two years. The technical highlight was a sprung sub-chassis that isolated the playing surface from sonically damaging vibrations from the support and environment. 

The Systemdek's sound quality rose well above that of its closest rivals – timing was confident, and music sounded tuneful and easy-flowing, leading to accolades and acclaim from both critics and listeners alike.

Pink Triangle Tarantella (1997)

 

Great name, great turntable. 

The first time we heard this turntable, we awarded it a dismal two stars. We were unable to get vinyl turning steadily at 33rpm – which, we're sure you'll agree, is a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to playing LPs.

But Pink Triangle brought the deck back to us with all problems solved – and we were thrilled to hear the Tarantella's open sound and refreshingly clear dynamics. It was an immensely exciting listen and a complete reversal from what we'd heard when the superbly-named Tarantella entered our doors.

Although the Pink Triangle company closed in 2003, there's no doubt the London manufacturer's legacy lives on.

Pro-Ject Debut (1999)

 

Not actually Pro-Ject's first product, but certainly one of its finest.

Despite its name, the Debut isn't the first product to come from Pro-Ject – but it's certainly one of its most significant. It's simple to use and great value for money, partly because of its European construction – the turntable was designed in Austria before being manufactured in Slovakia and the Czech Republic.

20 years of steady improvements brings you the impressive Debut Carbon and Debut Carbon Evo, but it's with this original that Pro-Ject came to the fore. To prove the health of the Debut lineage, the superb Pro-Ject Debut Pro is our current What Hi-Fi? Award winner, moving the range more upmarket with sublime results. 

Read our Award-winning Pro-Ject Debut Pro review

Roksan Xerxes 20 (2006)

 

Some very clever engineering saw the Xerxes 20 win our Temptations Award in the mid-2000s.

You should never judge a book by its cover, and the same can be said for turntables. The Roksan Xerxes 20 looks to be your conventional, run-of-the-mill wooden-box turntable, but it is packed with clever engineering.

A motor that turns on its axis to compensate for torque fluctuations, a bearing designed to minimise noise and rubber suspension tuned to dampen specific frequencies are just some of the little tricks Roksan's engineers built into this player.

And they worked, winning our Temptations tournament at the time. The Xerxes 20 got all the essentials right – this is a player with first-class dynamics, and exceptional timing and rhythm.

Read our Roksan Xerses 20 Plus (Package) review

Thorens TD160HD (2008)

 

Chunky, but most assuredly funky. 

20 years after the original Thorens TD160 turntable came through our doors, the TD160HD made its way to us in 2008, a year that in itself now feels like a lifetime ago. 

While it might appear chunky, this turntable's performance is anything but. It treats the subtleties in a song well, ensures the vocals are full of life, and provides a sound full of bass and depth – yet you'll be surprised at how tight your vinyl sounds. Ultimately it's a faultless, five-star performance, and has us hankering for the new TD160 iteration.

Read our full Thorens TD160HD review

Clearaudio Innovation Wood/Universal/DaVinci V2 (2010)

 

Our old reference turntable was an exceptional piece of hardware. (Image credit: Clearaudio)

One of our reference pieces of kit for several years, and with good reason, this high-end turntable sounds as good today as when we first heard it.

Innovation by name, innovative by nature: the ceramic magnetic main bearing minimises friction and noise, its high-quality DC motor and electronic speed governor switches between 33 1/3 to 45 or 78rpm at the push of a button.

As audiophiles, we always hope for transparency in our music, and the Innovation delivers. It's built superbly and a joy to use – a compulsory feature of this list – and remains in our hearts despite no longer being a fixture in our testing rooms. 

Read our full Clearaudio Innovation Wood review

Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S (2010)

 

The Stabi S/Stogi S had a strange name and odd looks, but it sounded superb.  

A uniquely designed turntable, Kuzma's Stabi S is a minimalist, beautifully engineered piece of kit. Its uni pivot design, silicone damping system and two-piece counterweight on its arm – to name but a few design choices – all help it deliver top-notch sound quality.

Insightful, dynamic, natural-sounding and able to deliver vocals with real passion, this turntable is something special.

Read our full Kuzma Stabi S/Stogi S review

VPI Prime (2015)

 

Want punch from your records? The VPI Prime is a Very Punchy Item.

VPI Industries has a long history of producing great turntables, and 2015's Prime player is no exception. The MDF chassis, steel plate and simple-to-use design all help towards its splendid sound quality.

It's a wonderfully confident-sounding product, with plenty of punch and impressive dynamics on scales both small and large. Of all the products VPI has made since its 1978 founding, the Prime is one of the very best.

Read our full VPI Prime review

Audio Technica AT-LP5 (2016)

 

The AT-LP5 is one of Audio Technica's finest, and that's saying something. 

As an Award winner of its time and one of our favourite budget turntables, the LP5 has something special to it, in both design and sound quality.

Its J-shaped tonearm harks back to those used by Audio-Technica in the 1960s and ’70s, while the AT95EX cartridge is exclusively designed for this turntable. Its sound quality is what really makes it shine; it's rhythmic and dynamic, with more than enough detail to keep us satisfied for hours of playtime. 

A turntable you can plug straight into your amp, with the added bonus of USB output, the LP5 is a winner, and that formula has proceeded to win our favour with the newer Audio Technica AT-LP5x too.

Read our full Audio Technica AT-LP5 review

Technics SL-1000R 

 

Our current reference turntable is an absolute gem. (Image credit: Technics)

A quality publication needs a quality turntable to get its records spinning. The beautifully made SL-1000R has been a fixture of our reference set-up for a while now, initially earning our favour with its unmatched sonic stability and breathtaking sense of insight and drive, especially at the lower registers. For the handsome sum of nearly £20,000 / $20,000, it really is the turntable that sets the standard at this premium level.

It's also wonderfully made. Weighing in at over 40kg (carrying isn't a one-man job), the SL-1000R is a stunning piece of engineering that, while never showy or attention-grabbing, exudes the sort of class and poise that gives you the confidence your records are getting the best service possible. Not only is the deck capable of a seriously high torque output, but Technics also boasts an astonishingly low 'wow and flutter' figure of 0.015 per cent.  

Read our full Technics SL-1000R review

Vertere DG-1 Dynamic Groove (2020)

 

Slim, sleek and exceptionally smooth sounding. (Image credit: Future)

Vertere Audio may not have the heritage of brands such as Rega or Linn just yet, but the brains behind the company have decades of experience in the field, and that's readily seen in the DG-1.

This may be the company's entry-level deck but it's still packed with the clever engineering that's so easily seen in the rest of the range. There's the flat tonearm, which is made of a triple-layered, aluminium alloy/polymer sandwich to minimise resonances. The plinth echoes the arm’s sandwich construction, but this time it’s three layers of acrylic reinforced with a steel chassis to give a rigid yet well-damped structure.

The list goes on, but the important thing is that this isn't just doing things differently just to be different, all these unusual ideas result in a deck with a class-leading performance that even pricier alternatives struggle to match. The DG-1, with the supplied Magneto moving magnet cartridge, produces a dynamic, rhythmically secure and massively entertaining sound. 

Plus, the core DG-1 DNA lives on with the exceptional updated model – the DG-1 S/Magneto, a deck that's so good it's our current What Hi-Fi? Award winner. 

Read our Vertere DG-1 Dynamic Groove review

SME Model 60 (2022)

 

Got a spare mini-fortune knocking around? This is the turntable for you. (Image credit: SME)

We apologise for using the sort of disgusting cliché normally reserved for air-headed panel judges on shows such as The Masked Singer, but the Model 60 really does have the coveted "wow factor". Built to be as exclusive as a Rolls Royce Phantom and almost as luxurious, the super high-end Model 60 was tested by our experts a couple of years back for £49,950 / $50,519 / AU$72,484. Believe it or not, it's absolutely worth it if you have the scratch.

A sublime engineering achievement, the Model 60's top-tier construction and immaculate build result in one of the finest-sounding turntables you'll find anywhere. From its precision-machined aluminium body to its advanced polymer resin 5A tonearm, the SME heaps quality onto quality, resulting in audio that delights with its exceptional resolution and outstanding control.

[funkyto 539]

Joyita a muy buen precio

[rbertins 78]

Aquí esta la correa que al parecer le falta a la CS 505-4, 

https://www.amazon.com/Turntable-Belt-Dual-CS-505-4/dp/B071NYJ7BW